The Black Box News had the opportunity to digitally interview Angie Pittman and learn even more about her Outta Box Genius.
She has shared some spiritual wisdom that we are excited to share with you below!
She has shared some spiritual wisdom that we are excited to share with you below!
Photo: Captured by Steven Duarte
What are your first childhood memories centered around movement as a healing practice?
"Yeah, I always like to talk about growing up in the black church. Just because I feel like this is the fundamental place where I learned everything I know about performance, and ritual and community, and gathering. So yeah, to answer this question it was at church! This is where I started my training as a praise dancer and as a movement performer. And I learned everything I know about like weight, and reverence. And when you think about grace, I learned all of that in, in church, my church was like a non-denominational church. But it had roots in Southern Baptist traditions.
It really taught me a lot of things. It's, you know, church is church, so it's not I guess I would say, it's not everything. But growing up for me, like we went to church most days of the week. So it was. But yeah, most of my movement practices were, you know, being in the praise dancing team or being on the church step team. Or we even had like a church hip hop dance team. It was really great being in choirs. Which always, you know, my choir is growing up, always had movement incorporated into it. Whether it was the two step or the step and the clap, it was always there.
I also think when I'm thinking about movement, in general, I grew up watching my god sister, like, compete in…or I guess I watched her in like dance recitals growing up. And, you know, I never got to do it, because we didn't have enough money to do that. But I remember watching that, like I was invited to her recitals every year. And I was like, wow, these are so cool. And I, you know, I want it to be involved in it. So I learned a lot about I don't know, whatever she was preparing for, through those sort of recitals of, you know, this sort of siloed jazz tap modern ballet dance training that so many people have that I didn't necessarily experience growing up. But I learned a lot from watching that. Yeah, so I think my biggest childhood memories were around dance in church. "
"Yeah, I always like to talk about growing up in the black church. Just because I feel like this is the fundamental place where I learned everything I know about performance, and ritual and community, and gathering. So yeah, to answer this question it was at church! This is where I started my training as a praise dancer and as a movement performer. And I learned everything I know about like weight, and reverence. And when you think about grace, I learned all of that in, in church, my church was like a non-denominational church. But it had roots in Southern Baptist traditions.
It really taught me a lot of things. It's, you know, church is church, so it's not I guess I would say, it's not everything. But growing up for me, like we went to church most days of the week. So it was. But yeah, most of my movement practices were, you know, being in the praise dancing team or being on the church step team. Or we even had like a church hip hop dance team. It was really great being in choirs. Which always, you know, my choir is growing up, always had movement incorporated into it. Whether it was the two step or the step and the clap, it was always there.
I also think when I'm thinking about movement, in general, I grew up watching my god sister, like, compete in…or I guess I watched her in like dance recitals growing up. And, you know, I never got to do it, because we didn't have enough money to do that. But I remember watching that, like I was invited to her recitals every year. And I was like, wow, these are so cool. And I, you know, I want it to be involved in it. So I learned a lot about I don't know, whatever she was preparing for, through those sort of recitals of, you know, this sort of siloed jazz tap modern ballet dance training that so many people have that I didn't necessarily experience growing up. But I learned a lot from watching that. Yeah, so I think my biggest childhood memories were around dance in church. "
Photo: A Still from "leaning" (2018), by Angie Pittman
Is there a defining moment where it was made clear that you were called to become a performer and a vessel for investigation on how your body moves through ballad groove sparkle, spirit, spirituals, ancestry, vulnerability and power?
"You know, I always felt like I wanted to be a performer. And I always felt that I was called to do this, whether I had the tools or not, you know, talking, going back to like, what I thought, when I was witnessing with my god sister in the recitals –I was like, Oh, she's training to be a performer and I'm not. It wasn't until I went through a process of decolonizing my thinking around dance training, that I realized that all my experiences performing in church growing up was preparation for becoming a performer. And, what I would say, better preparation to becoming a vessel for these things that I'm interested in.
So I don't know, I can't think of like a defining moment. But there was a moment I guess, through my graduate studies under my mentors, in that program, where I realized it's all valid, like all of my experience are valid and whatever patterning or messages I received from institutions around what was valid dance training and what was not, that was irrelevant and what my experience actually was, was.
So it was through that [reconcilatory] moment that I was like, “Oh yeah so those principles [that I learned in church], that principle of gravity, and display and or representation are pouring into the way that I choreograph, in terms of my relationship to abstraction.” AND abstraction is not white, it's black. And I know this because of my experience with it. So, I don't know, I don't think there was a defining moment. But there was a moment where I realized that like the decolonization work that I was doing, was affecting how I was looking at my performance background, and what I could do and what I can do. And yeah, there was a moment where I realized that Oh yeah, all of my experiences are valid. And all of them are, have trained me to be the best performer for my own work that I that I can be. "
"You know, I always felt like I wanted to be a performer. And I always felt that I was called to do this, whether I had the tools or not, you know, talking, going back to like, what I thought, when I was witnessing with my god sister in the recitals –I was like, Oh, she's training to be a performer and I'm not. It wasn't until I went through a process of decolonizing my thinking around dance training, that I realized that all my experiences performing in church growing up was preparation for becoming a performer. And, what I would say, better preparation to becoming a vessel for these things that I'm interested in.
So I don't know, I can't think of like a defining moment. But there was a moment I guess, through my graduate studies under my mentors, in that program, where I realized it's all valid, like all of my experience are valid and whatever patterning or messages I received from institutions around what was valid dance training and what was not, that was irrelevant and what my experience actually was, was.
So it was through that [reconcilatory] moment that I was like, “Oh yeah so those principles [that I learned in church], that principle of gravity, and display and or representation are pouring into the way that I choreograph, in terms of my relationship to abstraction.” AND abstraction is not white, it's black. And I know this because of my experience with it. So, I don't know, I don't think there was a defining moment. But there was a moment where I realized that like the decolonization work that I was doing, was affecting how I was looking at my performance background, and what I could do and what I can do. And yeah, there was a moment where I realized that Oh yeah, all of my experiences are valid. And all of them are, have trained me to be the best performer for my own work that I that I can be. "
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Angie, your work takes on what seems to be a performative approach to meditative movement practices, both in the movement and transformation of the body into a vessel for awakening, livening and cleansing the space. Does meditation take on an underlying current within your creative process?
"Yeah, that's a really good question… Listening. Practices for listening are always important to me. Listening intently and listening with a purpose to understand and hear has just been important to me as a person and as an artist. So it makes sense that my work has sort of this underlying tone that makes you, that I sort of trick my audience into like leaning in a little bit closer. Because I don't want to – my last piece Came up In A Lonely Castle, I was doing a lot of writing on it and talking about it. And I always went back to like, I don't want to have to say it again for you to hear me. Or I don't want to have to yell for you to hear me. And that feels like it takes on like a combative tone, in some context. BUT it really isn't. It's just a sentence. Like, I want to speak at the volume that I want to speak at. AND I want you to be able to hear me. So what do I need to do in the performance space, as a choreographer and a maker and as an artist to cultivate a space where you can hear me at the level that I want to speak, or dance. So that feels important to me. And when I say hear me, like I don't –this is what we're saying. It's not about hearing me, it's about hearing what messages come up in this, like, circular experience, like parallel circular experiences that we have on this earth? So I'm not like, listen to me, is it's not really about that. It's just about being in a space where there's space where other things to come up; whether they're from me, from another being from another realm, from your memory from your like, shopping list, whatever. Just being in a space where there is space, and that feels really important to me." |
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Photo: Image of Angie Pittman and Amber Hopkins in Silver and Sun by Angie Pittman captured by Shana Crawford
How would you say your awareness and or idea of the word gaze comes into play within your work? And it's aura of deep inward dialogue being offered up for the audience to see?
"Yeah, the gaze.
I feel like I'm sort of plagued and most a lot of people are, but I feel like, I'm whether good or bad, I'm plagued with this, like, being living inside of my own experience. But I'm immediately
jetting toward, like, historical context, environmental context, where I am in space and time. And that doesn't make sense. I guess what I mean by that, it's like, it's this double consciousness by Dubois that I'm constantly thinking of. Like, this idea of living inside your own experiences, but also being hyper aware of what it looks like for white people looking on your own experience.
So I, I fall back on that idea, often, but I think it's more like a triple, quadruple consciousness. Yeah, it's like me, living in time, my experience, what others see of me, what others see me in relationship to history, what others see of me in relationship to future, what others see of me in relationship to like media images, you know. It's all so complicated. Which makes it really important for me to practice presence. AND also practice astral projection a little bit. I like to talk with my sis Jasmine a lot about astral projection as my superpower. And I feel like I can really project myself somewhere else, and then have perspective as to where my body is in that time.
So I haven't even answered the question yet. I guess what I'm saying about gaze is I'm aware of the historical problematic, often problematic, relationships of the white gaze to my symbolic black femme body. I'm aware of that, and I work in between, inside of that relationship that my ancestors have had. And I recognize my agency in that, and I recognize the power of that. So I'm thinking of that, and I'm choosing to think about that or not. I'm choosing to work with that information to continue forward.
"Yeah, the gaze.
I feel like I'm sort of plagued and most a lot of people are, but I feel like, I'm whether good or bad, I'm plagued with this, like, being living inside of my own experience. But I'm immediately
jetting toward, like, historical context, environmental context, where I am in space and time. And that doesn't make sense. I guess what I mean by that, it's like, it's this double consciousness by Dubois that I'm constantly thinking of. Like, this idea of living inside your own experiences, but also being hyper aware of what it looks like for white people looking on your own experience.
So I, I fall back on that idea, often, but I think it's more like a triple, quadruple consciousness. Yeah, it's like me, living in time, my experience, what others see of me, what others see me in relationship to history, what others see of me in relationship to future, what others see of me in relationship to like media images, you know. It's all so complicated. Which makes it really important for me to practice presence. AND also practice astral projection a little bit. I like to talk with my sis Jasmine a lot about astral projection as my superpower. And I feel like I can really project myself somewhere else, and then have perspective as to where my body is in that time.
So I haven't even answered the question yet. I guess what I'm saying about gaze is I'm aware of the historical problematic, often problematic, relationships of the white gaze to my symbolic black femme body. I'm aware of that, and I work in between, inside of that relationship that my ancestors have had. And I recognize my agency in that, and I recognize the power of that. So I'm thinking of that, and I'm choosing to think about that or not. I'm choosing to work with that information to continue forward.
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So I think the witness is always important in my work, and gaze feels like it voids the subject of agency. And it sort of puts all of the agency on the viewer and I think I would like to flip it and call it a witness, which gives a lot more power to the performer. But also doesn't undercut the importance of either of those, those roles– the witness or the performer. And I think that comes from my practices of being in church growing up being a performer in church, being a church member, being a kid in church. The witness is always important. So I think it's active and I think in the way that I make my work, I am moving from this idea that I'm not just up here alone, I'm here with you. And yeah, I could do this by myself. But it's also important that you're here seeing me. And I appreciate you seeing me. And that seeing me, I'm going to challenge you to maybe quiet down a little bit. Listen, lean in a little bit. Challenge what you think my body represents and what you think it might do, or what you think it can or cannot do, or what you think it has power over.
Yeah, cultivating a sense of wonder and the audience of maybe they're gazing out of a window. That sort of tone of just watching something go by, but also being present with it. Not being outside of the experience as like a gaze or looking. But yeah. Thank you for that question. That was really interesting." |
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Photo: Image of Angie Pittman captured by Jasmine Hearn
If you could talk to your younger self and give them some words of guidance and encouragement to prepare them for their journey what would you say?
"Yeah, I think this is a great question. And I think this is like full circle in terms of like, it's really cool that you started with first childhood memories. And like, if you could go back to your childhood, like, what could you say? Or what would you say?
And I think what I would say is just start. Like, if I were to know that starting from accepting that all of my experiences and my training are valid, like, how would that have changed the way that I made work? I think I had to go through a process of relearning and accepting of all of my experiences, which made me feel like as a kid, I was like, automatically discounting them, which felt like I was not being in the moment. Yeah, so I would tell myself that like, every, all of these practices that you feel are tedious, or that you feel basically, this, like daily practice of going to church, there's a lot of possibility there for your art and your performance, self, and cultivating that, and enjoy that. Be in it. But also, now that this is it. This is exactly what you're going to be drawing from, in getting your life from and returning to in your adult years for your work. And instead of this being something that you have to get through, this is something that you are experiencing, and will continue to feed you for the rest of your life. And there are parts of that experience that you have to let go of in terms of like some of the doctrine that you're being preached about. But there are also some performative aspects that you need to hold closer. Like being in choir and singing with those groups of people and dancing with groups of people and listening to someone preach and witnessing other people. These are all experiences that will continue to feed you. So know that."
"Yeah, I think this is a great question. And I think this is like full circle in terms of like, it's really cool that you started with first childhood memories. And like, if you could go back to your childhood, like, what could you say? Or what would you say?
And I think what I would say is just start. Like, if I were to know that starting from accepting that all of my experiences and my training are valid, like, how would that have changed the way that I made work? I think I had to go through a process of relearning and accepting of all of my experiences, which made me feel like as a kid, I was like, automatically discounting them, which felt like I was not being in the moment. Yeah, so I would tell myself that like, every, all of these practices that you feel are tedious, or that you feel basically, this, like daily practice of going to church, there's a lot of possibility there for your art and your performance, self, and cultivating that, and enjoy that. Be in it. But also, now that this is it. This is exactly what you're going to be drawing from, in getting your life from and returning to in your adult years for your work. And instead of this being something that you have to get through, this is something that you are experiencing, and will continue to feed you for the rest of your life. And there are parts of that experience that you have to let go of in terms of like some of the doctrine that you're being preached about. But there are also some performative aspects that you need to hold closer. Like being in choir and singing with those groups of people and dancing with groups of people and listening to someone preach and witnessing other people. These are all experiences that will continue to feed you. So know that."
TBB News is so grateful to have the opportunity to share space with Angie Pittman!!
Please continue to support our O.B.A. Artists by donating directly to their artistic endevors.
Angie's work can be supported via Venmo (@Angela-Pittman-1)
Please continue to support our O.B.A. Artists by donating directly to their artistic endevors.
Angie's work can be supported via Venmo (@Angela-Pittman-1)